"When 200 hispanic students skipped school last week and marched through downtown Morgan Hill, California chanting 'Si se puede' intermixed with 'We want respect,' none were banned from school attendance on their return.
"When five students, one of them an American from latino roots, wore American flags to school as a sign of patriotic speech, they were labeled incendiary. They were instructed to turn their shirts inside-out so as to cover up the American flag. And when they refused to surrender their first amendment right to expression, they were given unexcused absences."
http://townhall.com/columnists/KevinMcCullough/2010/05/09/banned_the_american_flag_on_cinco_de_mayo
I am so sick and tired of being told that up is down, black is white, right is wrong.
SO sick of it . . .
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16 comments:
I'm with you on this one Orbs.
strongly agree!
It is a sad day in America when you can't wear clothing displaying your loyalty to your country on ANY day.
I'm sure there was more to it, and the students were probably trying to incite, but it seems this administrator made much ado about something he shouldn't have.
Well, it sounds like the kids were trying to be asses on Cinco De Mayo. Of course, the 1st Amendment actually does protect asses and when civil liberties collide with the right not to be offended, I come down on the civil liberties side.
US citizens are asses for wearing a US flag on US soil on the national holiday of a foreign nation?
The asses are those imposing a foreign holiday on US citizens, and those supporting them.
Start name calling, hale, and I will not disappoint you. I don't shit in your blogs. Don't shit in mine.
Even kk awknowledged they may have been trying to incite. I just put it cruder terms.
And Orbs, I was NOT calling you an ass.
Okay, I'll elaborate. Let's say these students were sons and daughters of servicemen and women and wore U.S. flag apparel every day (or at least on a regular basis) including Cinco De Mayo, then they are obviously not trying to incite anything. However, there is no evidence of this in any of the news reports and I bet the media would have picked up on it if there was since it would be a good narrative (and we know how the media love a good narrative). Especially since most of the coverage has been from the conservative media, I would place a fairly heft wager they would have played up an angle such as this if it existed. If this is the only time they wear a flag all year it, well, then the old saying about Patriotism being the last refuge of a scoundrel applies.
It does amaze me that the U.S. celebrates this minor holiday (not a big deal in Mexico)...guess we will take any excuse from other cultures to drink (just like St. Patrick's Day).
If a bunch of people decided to have a big immigration rally on July 4th and fly Mexican flags everywhere that day, I would call them asses as well. I am an equal opportunity ass caller.
I think it is farily well known that I am an atheist. Yet I don't go out of my way to point that out at Christmas or Easter just to cause trouble. I have no problem wishing my Christian friends a Merry Christmas. And my friends know that they do not have to say anything to me...they get that but NOT wishing my a Merry Christmas, they are respecting me.
And in the end, I agree with you in this case...from what I have read, it looks like the school was wrong to ask the students to remove their flag clothing.
Ahhh..........grrr.........
I am personally invested in this debate and thus I get more than a little worked up. My parents were legal immigrants who had to wait years and years for their chance at the American Dream, and then they had to jump through all sorts of hoops to do it. They did it the old fashioned way; they earned it.
Try running a small landscaping business in Racine when illegals undercut your prices by 75% because they aren't paying insurance, they aren't licensed, they don't have a horticulture education to pay off, they live 16 to a house, etc., etc. Try watching your buddy lose his job of 30 years to illegals, then forced into early retirement and relative poverty - a decorated war hero, no less.
I suspect there aren't too many illegal astrophysicists competing for your job, hale. You are protected by layers and layers. Some of us are beating our heads against a wall just to survive, and our government works AGAINST us in order to bend over for illegals.
I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER lower my flag on my soil in order to honor a foreign nation. NEVER. I will fight and I will die to defend that. My parents experiences with invading nations are seared into me. I will NEVER honor the flag of another nation unless I am first a citizen of that nation. Again, I will fight anyone, no matter how large or small, over this.
I consider myself one of those students, hale. I would gladly wear the American flag anywhere on US soil on May 5th , or any other day.
Why do look at the kids who wore flags to school and say they were the disruptive ones? How does a holiday in a foreign nation entitle all the rest of the kids to raise hell all day long? But their behavior is OK because it is Mexico's national holiday?
WTF?
Orbs, although we have different takes on some parts of this, we have some areas of agreement here too. I get that illegal immigrants can depress wages and cause economic hardships for small businesses that have difficulty competing (I mentioned that in my rant on SER's blog...I was on a roll last night).
A couple of year's ago, there was a bill passed in Arizona (that got much less press than SB 1070) that would have pretty severely penalized businesses that knowingly hire illegal workers. You can imagine that lots of businesses went crazy over this one. They were being threatened with sanctions up to the loss of their business license (for the record, this was passed by a Republican House and Senate and signed by a Democratic governor). I don't think we are ever going to solve the problem by focusing JUST on the immigrants and not holding the businesses that hire them accountable as well (or in your case, it sounds like pretty shady if not downright illegal businesses).
I am also on your side that the students that skipped school got off WAY too easy. As a former teacher, I was constantly frustrated at the lame excuses for missing school (backed up by the parents and administration many times). You can't even argue Cinco De Mayo is a a religious holiday, so get to school. So yeah, their butt should have been in school and unexcused absences should have been dealt with just like any other day.
I think you are slightly misinterpreting what I said about the flag. I am now and would not ask you not to fly it with pride. I am going to try and make a point on what could be a sensitive subject, so here goes.
The flag is not inherently good or bad. It can be used to show patriotism and pride. This is a good use of the flag and what it is intended for. It can also be used for political reasons which can get dicey pretty quick. It can be used to question someone's patriotism (see the flag lapel nonsense in the 2008 election or the never ending Pledge of Allegiance nonsense...politicians who try to out-flag each other, asses) or to make a bold statement against the government by burning it (and even when I agree with the point of the protesters, burning the flag usually puts them in the asses category).
So I guess what I am saying is, don't ignore the motivations people have for using the flag. They are not always pure.
Recent personal example of choosing not to be an ass. Last Thursday was the National Day of Prayer. It was also the International Day of Reason. I thought about posting blog on it, but considered what I would say and why I was posting it. Decided in the end that I couldn't pull it off without being a bit of an ass. Of course, I am not perfect and can think of several posts that, even if I would still make them, I might write differently a second time.
And I hope its not the word "asses" by itself the offends you, because that seems to be my word of the day.
You are protected by your position, hale, so you will never know what it is like to work for decades for something only to have it stolen from you by illegals. You blame business, you blame government, you blame everybody except those who are in the country illegally and stealing jobs.
How does a national day of prayer in the U.S. = Cinco de Mayo in the U.S.? Was there a U.S. declaration of a holiday on May 5th that I missed? Were Mexican citizens in Mexico being punished if they didn't defer to our national day of prayer? Are Mexican children punished if they wear a Mexican flag on the 4th of July?
If you are having a private celebration of some sort and I go out of my way to disrupt it, then I'm being an ass. Kids wearing flag shirts to school (NOT a Cinco de Mayo celebration) are kids wearing flag shirts to school. If foreign nationals want to make a stink that U.S. citizens cannot wear the U.S. flag on U.S. soil because it is a holiday in a foreign land, then fuck them. And FUCK the double standard that rewards those who do things illegally and punishes those who obey the law.
Btw, you are protected because your job requires accreditation, documentation - the very things the illegals are against.
Er, I should say the illegals are against honest documentation, the kind you earn by going through legal processes like naturalization. They are in favor being given free documentation, though.
Don't get me started on the landscaping part Orbs. I sell insurance and here in Oklahoma, you are required to carry car insurance. What some, yes Hispanics try to do is insure 8 trucks but only two drivers are listed. When questioned, I get "we are driving them". Bullshit. I know they are using them for landscaping and illegals are driving them.
Out of all the foreigners I deal with, they are the only ones who don't feel the need to learn the language and even cop an attitude when I tell them I don't speak Spanish. Every other immigrant, from India to the Middle East to Asia all manage to learn English.
I don't know, this may sound stupid but at 10% unemployment and people losing their houses, I'm pretty sure some of these people would take the jobs only the "illegals" would do. It's called survival. Maybe these are the ones who should be marching in the streets demanding their rights as Americans.
Well, it seems my initial flip remark sent this down a path that I don't think can be salvaged for a good exhange of ideas. I am just going to apologize for that and let this thread continue on without me.
Everyone take a breath. We don't need to fight amongst ourselves. I think we agree on the basic terms of this.
It was noted that the students did indeed wear this clothing to make a point of being asses. Let's look at the source: high school boys. That, in itself, is not an excuse, but it is what it is. These are not fully mature adults.
Wasn't the administrator's name Martinez? He is in a position of power. The onus should be placed on him. He should be the responsible adult and make professional decisions, not hold his own beliefs to be a higher priority than his responsibilities as an administrator. I believe he overreacted and failed miserably.
As for heritage, my grandparents immigrated and worked hard within the legal boundaries to make a living, learn the language and become legal citizens. They were proud to be Americans.
I am not so callous that I don't understand there are hardships for those illegals in our country. I also understand that the law is clear. These illegal immigrants are breaking the law, plain and simple. They do not deserve the benefits we enjoy as legal citizens.
We should have done more a long time ago (like deportation) before they raised families and laid down roots here.
It is my opinion that the time has come to start to do the right thing. It is hard but necessary. We can no longer afford to keep paying the way and making concessions for those who sneak into our country. Our borders need to be secure.
No fair, hale. I was busy this evening but decided hours ago that when I got back to this blog I was going to announce that I agree to disagree and wasn't going to say any more. Oh, and add that though I disagree with what you say, I will defend your right to say it. I read a blog somewhere that said people no longer say that to their opposition anymore and perhaps it is important that we do.
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