Thanks for turning me around KK. You put forth your position intelligently and without inflaming opposing viewpoints. I have been keeping my thoughts to myself for various reasons including my "part-time" job, as well getting flamed on FB and the like. However, for your reading enjoyment here goes:
I support Governor Walkers proposal for the following reasons:
The state is broke. Previous administrations from both sides of the aisle raided, overfunded, underfunded and moved funds around to balance the budget. There isn't anything to move anymore. Public employees have very cheap health care. Even with the increase proposed they will STILL be below what the average private sector employee. They have to pay more for insurance and pension or job cuts will happen. Take your pick.
This is also about the unions not being able to automatically deduct for dues anymore. They are losing their moneypot and are ticked off. Teachers in RUSD pay more for the union dues then for healthcare. Something is wrong about that.
19 states and the Obama federal government do not allow public sector employees to unionize. What Walker is doing is not a radical idea.
Something has to be done to reduce the budget. Everyone will feel the pain on this. Local units of government will feel it as well. We need to fix this before we turn in to the next California. This is not an attack on Teachers, or DPW or Firemen. It's the economic crash coming home to roost.
Thanks for reading my opinion, which like you I am entitled to have.
Well thought out comments welcome from all sides. Attacks and flames will be deleted.
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Well Wackman, this is the way I see it: I as with you believe something has to be done, BUT I do not believe in dropping the hammer on people out of the clear blue! I believe there has to be a better way.
The way I see it coming down in the future is; teachers are no longer going to be able to support themselves, not all of them have a two family income. These (the singles) are going to quit and get new jobs to survive, they have to.
The state and country is saying we need more teachers/instructors! Well we just flushed their incentive down the toilet. Why would I want to go to school (college) for 4 years when I can go to K-Mart and make the same amount of money right now!
With no teachers/instructors what are you going to do...triple the classroom size? I don’t think so. Those teachers/instructors will say “I’m outta here”!
So now the private sector schools are going to fill up and what the hell might as well triple our yearly dues to attend my school, and they’ll get it!
Now we don’t have any classroom for the remaining students. People (families) will be forced to move out of the state for education.
In ten years or less there will not be enough people left in Wisconsin to support the states wild spending and at that time we can take all the doors off the capital building and turn it into one hell of a playhouse for kids. The rest of the state will be Minnesota and Illinois largest state park!
No flaming from me. Was what you wrote genuine or was it sarcastic?
Here goes: I agree with much of what you write, believe it or not. I am not a zealot. There needs to be change. The anger, the finger pointing and blame, however, needs to stop. From what I've heard from most teachers is they understand meeting a budget is necessary.
I think everyone should remember that in high times while the private sector was getting substantial monetary raises, these state workers were under a QEO cap. They moved those smaller increases every year into pension benefits and reduced health costs in lieu of dollars gained. It wasn't a gift or stolen from the public.
Please explain to me why employees can not be united though unionization and representation. I know that even with the union, my employer tries endlessly to impose selective unfairness upon its workers. I am certain with no central assistance from union representation this will run totally amok.
Can you please give me more information on the paragraph that begins with 19 states... I'd like to look into that more from where you get this information. I thought I heard Obama on the news state that he denounced Walker's plan of denying union representation. I'm confused by that.
"19 states and the Obama federal government do not allow public sector employees to unionize. What Walker is doing is not a radical idea."
I don't know about the 19 states...would have to do some research on that one. I do know that the National Federation of Federal Employees is a union (with an awful name that smacks of redundancy) that represents over 100,000 federal employees so I will take some issue with that statement pending further clarification from you. There is also the National Treasury Employees Union and the The American Federation of Government Employees.
Additionally, earlier this month, TSA screeners were given the right to vote on whether they want a union. I believe there are SOME federal employees that are not allowed to unionize, but there it seems that there are plenty in Unions. Perhaps you have a different definition of public sector employee?
I stand corrected on one point: some federal employees have the right to unionize.
Thanks for the correction.
I personally think that If BOTH sides sat down and HONESTLY bargained the Union would pay into the Health Plan, and the Pension Plan. I do however believe they will NOT give up bargaining rights.
I have a question. Why aren't police and fire included in these pay cuts?
Because you never go after everyone at one time. Take small bites, swallow and come back for seconds. If the Fire and Police don't back their Union brothers and sisters now, they will cry for their aid later. Surprise! however, The state workers won't be able to because if they show support, it will be cause for termination.
Divide and conquer.
Thanks Huck.
Mary, Some are saying that the reason is that those unions backed Walker in the election. That is just supposition, though. A lot of things are being "said."
Update... Jesse Jackson just flew in to speak to the rallies at the capitol. Also, the house convened before the scheduled time, and began voting before the dems entered the room. All the dems microphones were shut off and they were ignoring the Nay votes of the dems. Shouting ensued and the minority leader finally got the floor, got his mic turned on and chastised them. Last I heard they canceled voting until Tuesday because of worries of an unsafe environment...
This gets more crazy by the second. I really hope this doesn't turn violent.
I had to sit down and think about this to whether to respond or not. Most of you know that I'm a political dumb ass, so be it... But here is my response from a personal point of view....
A few months ago, there was a knock on my door. It was a union representative looking for me. I was SHOCKED! Questions flooded my brain.In the 23 years that I have worked for my company, I never knew a union. Why now? How did he find me? And so forth...
Apparently, someone in my company (I don't know who) was disgruntled about the company situation and called these guys. Rightly so to a point. For what I make after 20+ years is about the same as starting pay as the unionized competitors we face. Kinda sucks don't it? Yet, if I were to work for these guys, I'd lose out on seniority, vacation and work 2nd or 3rd shift to start.
Yes, the money would be nice.
Yet, I listened to their promises and punchline and remained skeptical. After all, anything that sounds to good to be true, there's a catch.
Aside the union dues,I didn't see too many problems. Yet, I did a little research. These guys represented the union for a company in Fond du Lac where the employees ended up in taking a pay cut and wages frozen for seven years. This company was threatening to move else where. This was the SAME organization to represent Harley Davidson, which ended up in the news.
In the meantime, I dealt with a company divided. The vibes were terrible. It was like company vs worker. I did not like it. All I wanted was a peaceful workplace. I was afraid that my company would go under because of all of the shit going down. (Remember Walker Forge?)
In the end, the union was voted OUT of there by a landslide. My pay and benefits remained the same. Has anything changed? NOPE.
Again, I believe that we are at the end of a golden era. When the US owned the technology and the production, we rode on top for decades. That's no longer the case. The genie is out of the bottle. In the private sector, producers/employers now often look to other countries. I don't know how this will all shake out for private and public employees in the future, but I think a lot of people will be hurting for a long time.
Drew: (dumb ass) LOL You probably made a good decision. If the company you work for Is not mistreating you, and you are pretty much happy with what you have, you can consider what your not paying In dues as "Money In the Bank" I don't know what the dues would be, but when I was In the U.A.W. from "69" to "84" the dues were like $24.00 a month. I would guess they are no longer that amount. So actually your making a bit more money than you thought. KINDA I'm a Union supporter, but sometimes It just isn't a good idea to form a new union In an existing company.
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